Book 3 - still being written

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Book 3 - still being written

Postby clong » Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:22 am

This the thread to discuss progress on the third book of The Song of Naga Teot
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Postby hgladney » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:39 am

Another bit of info that I'd emailed back in 2004 to a fan who wrote me:

Of course I wish none of us had been left in suspense like that [on the second Teot book], but I have been working on crafting some rather nice twists and surprises in the next one. And the ms I *thought* was going to be the third book has been pushed back to be the fourth one, incidentally, so there's more after the third one. I do like the fact that DAW says they like big books--I just wish this mss wasn' insisting on getting bigger and bigger and bigger!
I've been feeling guilty lately for not getting more done faster on it, and decided it was time to set aside all the political emails and letters, as I've done what I can so far (it felt like it was especially important this year to *do* something about it) and also there's probably two entire people left in the country still feeling vague about who deserves their vote.
The curious part is that I feel like I'm waiting for the election to sort out which direction we'll be going, and that tone will affect how I'm handling issues like leadership, supervision, abuse of power, and so on in the books. But I've been wanting to get back to writing...
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby hgladney » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:46 am

Some duplication, but further info, if anybody wants to see it as of Sept. 2004:
At this website, they give submission guidelines, and mention the name I know, the submission editor, Peter Stampfel.
http://penguinputnam.com/static/package ... dawsub.htm
The general address they give is :
DAW Books
375 Hudson Street
New York, NY 10014

I've talked to Mr. Stampfel on the phone, a very nice man who took time to hunt through some pretty tall stacks to find my older submission. Unfortunately, he can't do anything further with it until I give him something more recent to work with. I'd explained that I thought it was two books,a nd that it needed rewriting, and he said that (fear not) that DAW likes big books, and by the evidence of the bookstore shelves, it's entirely true.
Currently, the mss is on hold while I rewrite it, and believe me, it's been taking longer than I like to do a really good job of it.
Bu I am trying to do so. I do have some very cool things tucked in there now. And yes, it has been decades. Sigh!
I must say, notes as nice as yours are great fuel to motivate me to do it!
Thank you indeed.
If you really wanted to give Mr. Stampfel some other hints, the idea of a reissue of the first twoAce volumes could perhaps be (cough!) delicately phrased...
It's a pretty far out idea for most circumstances, I admit freely, but in this case (as of 3 -4 years ago) DAW and Ace Books were actually operating out of the same building, sharing overhead, though they remain separate companies. The editors know each other, talk to each other, etc. (I think many of them play poker together, though I'm not sure which night is regular.)
Along with sugarplums dancing in one's head, the idea of an omnibus volume does sound attractive, but I don't know if we could do it. This one mss alone is ...really big.
I just have to get it moving in time to catch that wave!
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby hgladney » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:18 am

Further updating, from an email to a fan as of May 2005:
Yes, I do intended to get the rest of it out there. It's flattering to have people want to see it!
Yes, all this time (through various submissions and rewrites and etc.) I've been seriously working on the third book. Lately I've been expanding some flashbacks that led off my original DAW submission 2 years ago, and it's still ongoing, believe it or not. I've added enough to make it into another whole book, which worried me on the size issues, but they say they like big books, and it may remain in one volume if DAW can handle that much size. (A boat anchor, but nonetheless...) And before I started rewriting the third book's opening, I had already moved on to work on a fourth book, which wasn't completed when I moved back to work again on the third book.
But it does mean that it might be book 4, or if this current mss gets broken in half, that becomes book 5.
And then I have these notebooks, and I'm sure more stuff will get left over that needs to go somewhere later, and...that's how I get in trouble!
At this point, I'm *still* trying to get it done, trying to pull the threads together.
As soon as I can get it done and get it to DAW, I will (since they liked the original submission).
It may take awhile to hear back from them, and possibly further for a decision on whether they want to issue the first 2 books as well in new covers. That's a little odd, given those were done by another company, but it's been happening more than it used to.
Also, if DAW can't see the numbers working for them for a reissue at their level, it's possible that Meisha Merlin would at theirs. Some writers would go to Meisha first with reissue, just to make sure their name is kept alive out there, and I'm sure Meisha would be interested in seeing them, but then it seems unfair to take the rest of the series to DAW.
I'd also like to get moving on finding an agent, and a good one can make things move a *whole* lot faster--but I'll need to have the completed mss in hand to do that. (There's some folks out there who research agents and have sliding scale of who does what sorts of things, and who's a real agent with some track record, and so on.) Also, it might not end up at DAW that way, either. But we'll see how that goes.
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby Winship » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:51 pm

I have to admit when I saw your name, it quite jump out at me until I reviewed your books. I remember reading Teot's War and being enthused about Bloodstone. Followed by waiting for next in the series, and waiting and then finally giving up.

After several moves and lightening my book collection several time, I find myself without copies of the fore mentioned books.

Whether of not they reissuse the first two of I have to search around for copies I do looking forward to being reintroduced to Teot.
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
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hello, and thanks, winship!

Postby hgladney » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:56 pm

I'd live to be able to point you at 3rd book, but it's glaring back at me right now(from the in tiny vent holes in the computer, you know) and demanding to know why I'm off goofing round, having fun.
Short answer: Because I've never run so hard at work in my entire life, today? (Or very nearly so. Sigh!)

I'd also love to be able to point you to big new OMNIBUS EDITION, all 3 books at once, OMG!! much as I've seen DAW doing with some of CJ Cherrhyh's lovely 3-book series.
But alas, we are all suffering with used originals, and the second book has become expensive. I have no idea why, as more of it was printed.
Bodes well for next batch of books, I hope!
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby hgladney » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:02 am

Just put up this reply to Evain, over in the thread on Book the First, and realized it applies in several places, but probably most here on Book Three. Maybe eventually I'll figure out how to structure comments so I'm not wasting time on double- or triple-posting, but oh well...

...I was just over on Mr. Modesitt's forum, and likewise enjoyed his FAQs and comments on writing, how he concentrates for a few hours and breaks it up, and so on. It was really interesting--and the funny part was that I hadn't thought about discussing the mechanics of putting the fanny in the chair and getting writing done.

Actual writing, as opposed to, oh, say, emails, or reading other people's postings on some fthese internet forums that we might know about, or surfin' the net in search of the right pump to go with that filter for the aquarium, or any other of that really boring but necessary bill stuff...

So, yep, I've been enjoying myself poking about and sticking my nose into all kinds of stuff round here, and not getting a lot done on the Third Book. As it's quiet for a change (this does not happen often) today I declared a Book Day, and put off everything else.

Well, except giving the cat his meds. And microwaving more hot water for tea. I'm trying not to overdo the caffeine, but I need something to drink to keep my throat working (allergies) so I'm alternating red bush tea and oolong tea. Besides, endless cups of tea require frequent breaks to recalibrate the mental concentration, right??
:banana:
Oh yeah, and then there's the regular weekend necessities, changing the bed, and cleaning the tank (including filters, *no* shirking, it's been 3 weeks already, yuck!!) and various corollaries of housecats owning you (that is the correct usage, really, as in that saying, "cats have staff").

On the plus side, I have drilled through continuity checking on three rather difficult chapters today,
:whip:
and only bogged down about halfway through a fourth one that came out of the old submission draft that originally went to DAW. This is where the new structure meets the old draft and gives you a right royal pain.
This is sort of like saying that you've got the trailor hitch locked on, and now you're just trying to get your brakelight connection working.
<tinker tinker swear tinker mutter mutter ouch! drop wrench!>
Anybody know where I can pick up a fresh brain?
This one's used.
:crazy:
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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partly, an odd sort of writing journal entry

Postby hgladney » Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:41 am

Also, partly, trying out links to see if folks can follow what I'm trying to do with links here. Hmm, I'm finding that I can link to a whole page of comments in a link, but not to a particular posting--and in spite of my verbiage, I know y'all are used to fairly short quotes.

You have to scroll down to see lauri's entry about a really big storm...
viewtopic.php?t=155&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=175

This is laurie's link to some details about a storm that turns out to have been something called a derecho:
http://www.syracuse.com/news/labordayst ... ory1a.html

Then I replied here:
viewtopic.php?p=1756885#1756885
=====
Spoilers....
laurie said earlier:
Quote:
But in 1998, during the NY State Fair (which takes place about 10 miles from my home), we had a whopper of a storm (NOT a hurricane) come through with 90 MPH wind gusts which tore up trees, took roofs off buildings and knocked out power for almost a week.
From that time on, I've hated the sound of thunder rumbling even from a distance...
====
The article, in part:
...A Canadian air mass, with brisk temperatures in the 60s, rolled into a slogging system of hot, humid air. Fall met summer.

When a cold front confronts 90-degree haze, stand back. Warm, moist air shoots upwards, as if the lid's been yanked from a kettle of boiling water. Air whooshes in to fill the space, causing winds to plunge downward chaotically. It brings hail and wild arches of static electricity.

Meteorologists call it a "derecho" - a Spanish word meaning "straight." On this night, it meant a sense cluster of thunderstorms that seemed to drop quickly from the heavens.

One formed late Sunday near eastern Michigan and charged southeasterly, popping up on radar screens near Toronto, then accelerating over the watery plain of Lake Ontario.

Inside the beast, gusts reached 115 miles per hour, compacting the wrath of a tropical storm into a 10-minute maelstrom. The last derecho to touch upstate New York -- then, they called it a "microburst" -- occurred July 15, 1995. That particular storm toppled trees across 125,000 acres in the Adirondacks. ...
====
So, I replied to laurie with this:

Thanks for the link, went over and read it. Yeaaarghh! Sounds exactly like some of the survivors of tornadoes!
Yet I don't recall every seeing a Discovery Channel-type explanation of them, I'd never heard of a derecho before.
Except that, oddly enough, I've been *writing* one.
Which is really all that much stranger because I've never seen one myself.

I'm not just tossing all kinds of stuff in there just to make the character's lives more difficult--"here, have some *hail*, how'd you like *that* bit of sleet, and that, and...<insert manic authorial giggle of your choice here.>

(really, I'm not! I swear! Well, I swear a lot, but not *that* kind--)

They're just telling me, "Hey, this is what's happening," and shrug, and walk off. "Hey, no skin off my nose if she don't believe us..." mutter mutter mutter.
And I'm going, uh hmmmm, sure, ahhhhhhh okay. Right.

People have *told* me that you can't get lightning and hail and static discharges and ball lightning all at once.
Never happen. Nuh uhhh, not realistic.
Then I read something like this.
The characters are right, you know...
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby clong » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:14 pm

So, Heather, when what you are working on now (which sounds like it may likely end up being books 3, 4, and 5) are done, will the story be over? Have you written the end?
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Postby hgladney » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:26 pm

Umm, let's see, the third book mss is long enough to make two books, and I'd put off working on what I'd thought would be the fourth book (and may still be) and there were leftovers o a third-of-a-book in size after that which were going to go into a fifth book, but no, there isn't a firm ending to the whole series as yet.
As I keep adding new factors and characters and settings and complications, the thing keeps twisting and changing but still remains essentially the same, which is maddening. Sort of like holograms or fractals, perhaps.
You know those writers that have an end scene pop in their head which *is* the story, that's the point, the whole thing is right encapsulated there?
:evil:
So not me.
:roll:
At least, not so far.
It'd be nice, but no.
It's probably closer to the way Anne McCaffrey might have been doing her dragon books (though I don't recall reading or seeing interviews where she discussed it, so I don't know for sure).

I'm afraid I still need to straighten out the other half of that chapter, and I've been putting it off.
Sigh.
I tried to post a rather long comment somewhere else, and I think it's failed to go through, but I'm not sure. Is there a size limit?
(Trust me to exceed a board size limit...)
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby Kvetch » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:23 am

hgladney wrote:I tried to post a rather long comment somewhere else, and I think it's failed to go through, but I'm not sure. Is there a size limit?
(Trust me to exceed a board size limit...)

More likely it just failed to 'catch' - it is advisable to check that your post has actually appeared. If you do exceed the board size limit (which is more than a chapter's worth of text, I know for sure), it just cuts of the exess text, not eats the post.
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Postby hgladney » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:13 pm

Thanks, Kvetch. Could easily have failed to catch, things were being flaky the whole day.
(Yes, I tired out the Internet, working on it *all* day.)
:lol:
Or it maybe could have been that 106 degrees F frying everything...
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby hgladney » Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:04 am

It was 107 degrees frelling today...
I was up too late last night--erm, I mean this morning--rereading HP Order of the Phoenix (it'd been awhile and I'd forgot all kinds of stuff).
And yeah, that's one of those spots I'd love to do strikeout text. I thought I saw somebody doing that over here...
So I slept late.
As in, vampires sleep *late.*
Blew most of the remaining day online, not on book.
Bad writer. That's what people hated about Samuel Clemens' writing, isn't it?
All those letters to his friends and family, but not enough stories.
And I should be asleep now, too.
I know many of you are going to do the same thing with a Book That Shall Remain Nameless, But Thick Enough to Anchor Boats, And That's All I've Got To Say About It.
Y'all are gonna be toast on Monday morning.
I'm just a leetle bit concerned that *I* might be what you dump outta the toaster after ya burnt the raison bread in there. Yuck.
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby hgladney » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:15 pm

Slight change of topic here, but definitely on the order of writerly research.
And strangely appropos, considering that the name "Naga" came out of practically nowhere.
This is how major characters seem to announce themselves--here, bang, this is me, this is my name, like it or lump it.
I do like to collect typos, particularly odd persistent typos, for subsidiary characters. Or glance through lists of names, see if something sounds close to what I think it is--stimulating your mental process, not dictating to it.
But majors announce themselves.
I finally figured out about five years later that name must have been some sort of subconscious reversal on Kipling's cobras, Nag and Nagaina, in the short story Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. Well, those names were classic Hindu references by Kipling, even if his English audience might not know it.
http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/ ... /nagas.asp
If you look at this link, you soon think that it's spookily appropriate, even though this character's personality and capabilities are more more like the mongoose. It's also good resource in general, lots and lots of info here on various obscure religious names and topics.
Things buried in those layers I had no idea were in there...
So, you could just assume that characters name themselves for good reasons even if you only find out later what it *really* means.
I'm a little concerned what I'm going to run across with other names.
No, "Caladrunan" was not a typo, but you'd think it would be, the way it looks. That one arose out of some image in my head that resembles some sort of katakana symbols or something. It was trying to flip over into sound, and not doing so well.
I remember sounding things out, trying to come up with something with a hard "C" and which didn't sound like either an Amazon Queen or a variety of fig, approaching something that was already in my head.
It's still probably not *quite* right, but close enough for foreigners who are *trying* to be polite. It seems to amuse them, you know...I'm still asking myself why. And not getting an answer.
I'm afraid it might be something that turns into an insult if mispronounced so badly.

I came across that link via a reference to the word Abraxas.
Try looking up that one, and you'll see some interesting Christian heresies, even though I would speculate this name probably comes out of much older sources. I'd speculate it might be Zoroastrian or possibly out of some of the same background as Gilgamesh.
Somebody else round here who knows tons more about Mesopotamian history and myths than I do could probably tell us about that.
Last edited by hgladney on Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby clong » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:13 am

Interesting stuff, Heather. I must say, it took me a while to figure out that Drin and Caladrunan were the same person (which led to some initial confusion :lol: ).
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Postby hgladney » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:09 am

That's something else that my editing should be looking for, awkward bits like that where it's not clear who's being talked about.
I get very annoyed these days with writers who used sixteen nicknames for the same person, though I didn't used to. Maybe it's just harder for me to remember the collection than it used to be, because I'm tired.
But even then, I knew I'd better keep it down on the nicknames. Caladrunan is enough of a royal mouthful and he's casual enough in his authority that you know his guards probably aren't calling him that, let alone his kids.
In real life, some people have all kinds of nicknames, and some just never do. It's not just a mark of fondness, and it's not just a mark of an awkward name that needs truncating, though those can be some of the reasons. It'd be interesting to know why.
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby Cygnet » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:41 pm

hgladney wrote:And strangely appropos, considering that the name "Naga" came out of practically nowhere.
I finally figured out about five years later that name must have been some sort of subconscious reversal on Kipling's cobras, Nag and Nagaina, in the short story Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. Well, those names were classic Hindu references by Kipling, even if his English audience might not know it.
http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/ ... /nagas.asp


*blink* *giggles* I thought you'd known when you picked the name!
hee hee...
Yes, it's a good name for him.
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Postby mccormack44 » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:59 pm

Just speculation on nicknames.

My given name (the one I use — it's my second name) is Sue. There aren't a great many nicknames for Sue, which is essentially a nickname to begin with.

I seem to be a somewhat formal person (on the outside), somewhat pedantic, and I talk a lot. So this may discourage other nicknames that don't derive from Sue.

The obvious nickname for Sue is Susie; and my mother DID use this when — and only when — she wanted me to do something for her. My husband and a friend at work, who didn't know about this, HAVE used Susie as a term of friendship and affection, but I believe that my family avoided it because of my mother's special use. "Susie" equals "I want …" was so blatant that my son began calling me "Susie" to signal a request by the time he was 6. This was a way of sharing with me that he understood his grandmother's usage, not a matter of "over familiarity" or "disrespect" of his mother.

I merely wonder if either factor (personality of the non-nicknamed or "misuse" of available nicknames) might be a cause (or part of a cause) for the lack of nicknames.

Sue
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Postby hgladney » Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:34 am

Sue, very good points! Thanks--makes sense. I was aware that people don't seem to nickname me, either, probably for the same personality traits.
Yes, another triumph of the geekness!
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby mccormack44 » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:59 am

Besides, Heather is a beautiful name for a beautiful personality.
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Postby hgladney » Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:52 pm

:oops:
Oh gosh!!
Thanks!
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby hgladney » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:34 pm

The latest impediment round here is the fact that my wireless connection is flaking on me after about eight minutes after connection.
:?
Everybody else's connection is just fiiiine.
:x
For awhile there, this meant rebooting the computer every time I wanted to connect to post things. Yes, Windows rots out pretty frequently, and my computer *is* all of four months old now...
:roll:

At any rate, until the in-house tech can reinstall the rotter, I'll be fighting to do very much of anything on the net.
Gee, that's one way to make ya shorten your posts, ain't it??

Oh yeah, and the second big log in the trail?
I hate the last three chapters I've done. If *I* am unable to get back into it, failing to pick up the thread, whenever I try to read them, it's not gonna work for other folks either.
This whole section is heavy on the military geekboy logistics, for one thing, and a little character-based window dressing on all the homework doesn't make it easier to follow.
Also, window dressing on an established tactical setup doesn't tell you how they got there, how decisions were made, why. Decisions=big part of character.
So now I'm trying to figure out if it's one of those deals where *I* need to work it out and understand it thoroughly, but the reader can get the general picture from a few tossed-off comments here and there, they won't *care* what the geek details are, or how it got there. In that notion of rewrite, I try to leave in enough to satiete those folks who do know what the geekboys were talking about. Or at least to project various scenarios, some of which eventually happen. That allows *them* to understand what kind of character decided on that, but it's opaque to anyone who doesn't have a feel for the difficulties of transporting several tons of iron up an unstable hillside.
Yeah, actually, that's the simple option.
I could attempt something more interesting, and possibly more difficult, by regarding the existing work as the subtext, the structural basement, and put the focus on character being built in front of you, *along with* the tactical layout. Show an example or two about these guys go about making decisions, sketch what they've learned from working on this battle sequence, make toss-off comments convey what kind of setup we're talking about. Such commnts would be absolutely reliant on that substructure, though the basement stuff may or may not be very visible in the final text.
When you see a photo of the upper airy arches of the Alhambra, you don't need to see pix of the heavy ground pillars to know they're there, for instance.
Even more important, there's previous chapters with lesser, but similar, problems.
Bleaah.
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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Postby Aunflin » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:08 pm

You sound just like me, Ms. Gladney...I'm always trying to write something and being: distracted, bored, or etc. with what I'm writing...

But fortunately for you, you've done it before--so do it again! :)

[MOD NOTE - clong edited for spelling]
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Postby hgladney » Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:46 am

Yes ma'am! will do! :P
Well, hopefully!
On the boredom issue, it's more a problem that if I'm not having fun, probably other folks aren't going to either, and I want to think about other ways of conveying any needed information without beating people over the head.
(I have characters to do that for me, right? Right.)
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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hgladney
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Postby hgladney » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:21 pm

Going back to earlier comments about the name naga...there's some more amusingstuff out there if you google.
It just gets better.
As I'm an aquarium-keeper myself, this is just way too appropriate.
http://www.worldfishcenter.org/naga/nagainfo.htm

Pictures from the place in NE India where many hill tribes, collectively known by outsiders, as Nagas. They were famous for being headhunters before the British stopped it, and Christian missionaries came in. They know one another by tribal and village names.
This is wooded terrain, not desert at all.
http://nagarealm.com/modules/pnCPG/coppermine/index.php

Wikipedia entries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_%28mythology%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga

Some odd translation going on here, but scroll down to number 7...
http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/n/nagaa.htm

The name is apparently fairly closely associated with groups in Cambodia as well. This is a seven-headed one.
http://www.btinternet.com/~andy.brouwer/be2.jpg

further explanations, including why yogic adepts may be called nagas...
http://www.khandro.net/mysterious_naga.htm
http://www.khandro.net/mysterious_nagas_2.htm
Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little.
---Plutarch
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hgladney
Professional Wordsmith
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: Left Coast

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