More Questions from an L.E. Modesitt Fan

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Post by Emperor »

I asked because i got to thinking about it from remembering how you had treated the topic in The Ethos Effect (I hope I have the right book) and not recalling it mentioned in the Recluce series.

Thank you for the insight
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Post by gollum »

Also in 'The Elysium Commission' one may switch genders, so a samer is not culturally remarkable.
Though it may be a deviation on planets other than Devanta.

[hmmm, as I'm writing this, it occurs to me that that name may be purposely playful?]
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Post by Cleokatrah »

First, hello to all my fellow Modesitt fans. I've been lurking on and off here for a couple years now, basically just reading and enjoying your commentary. Ever since I discovered this place, I have been impressed with the relationship Modesitt has with his readers. So, kudos to you all for being so cool.

I will be running a roleplaying game in the Recluce world/atmosphere and I a) wanted to clear it with Modesitt, though I know he already okayed something similar a couple years ago, and b) ask a couple questions.

1. I'd like to know the names of all 10 ships of Recluce's mighty fleet, if there are ten names. I've uncovered these thus far: Shierra, Black Hammer, Lysse, Hydel

2. Is it possible for a chaos wizard to send backlash to a scrying order mage who is watching him?

3. Scrying is performed through a glass by the the whites, via the winds by the blacks; what side uses birds? Or is this simply the "effect" of the scry? As in a bird can become the tool a wizard sees through, regardless of alignment.

4. Can anyone please tell me how deeply the two foundation books, Magii and Scion, delve into the sci fi, as in ships and throttles and space speeds, etc? I don't know why, but I always have trouble immersing myself in worlds that have too much "metal" and futurism involved, but I want to read the story of the settlement of Candor. I think.

Personal note to Modesitt:
While reading your alternating point-of-views can be mind boggling and frustrating at times, it is also very refreshing. It also serves as a good example and encouragement to venture into these POVs yourself, if you are an inspiring writer. For a frustrating time, I was subconsciously changing my own POV several times in a single write. This inspired me to give in to instinct and write my first first-person scenario. To this date, it is one of my personal favorites, and I am now relatively confident writing in any perspective, although I still find myself jumping between them mid-write sometimes. I imagine this is an occasional issue for you, too. And if it isn't, you're not human, and my bow to you becomes even deeper.

Also, your elusive/vague portrayal of emotions both fascinates and unfulfills me. There is just enough information for a romantic like me to imagine great loves, and just enough lacking to know for sure. You're maddening and addicting. Thank you.
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Answers -- of sorts

Post by lmodesitt »

1. I never named all the ships of the mighty ten, but there are two others besides those you've discovered -- Creslin, Megaera.

2. No.

3. No side uses birds, but attempting to get a "high" view of a locale can give a "bird's eye" view.

4. There's very little SF in either Magi'i or Scion, except in indirect references to the chaos towers.


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Post by ShawnCowles »

I think the only book that directly references sci-fi is the Fall of Angels.
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Re: Answers -- of sorts

Post by Ghost »

lmodesitt wrote:1. I never named all the ships of the mighty ten, but there are two others besides those you've discovered -- Creslin, Megaera.
L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
The ship Dorrin is mention in The Order War (Justen is wondering whether Dorrin would like the thought of the ship being named after him and thinks that he would not.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you,
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Post by Cleokatrah »

Thank you all very much. The bird scrying I was referring to was Creslin's feeling he was being watched by circling birds (I think?), but Tower is one of my most frequently lent out/repurchased books and I currently don't have a copy to check. It looks like I know what my next three book purchases are ^_^
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Re: Answers -- of sorts

Post by CodeBlower »

lmodesitt wrote:3. No side uses birds, but attempting to get a "high" view of a locale can give a "bird's eye" view.
Doesn't Dorrin's trader-friend shoot at a bird and unleash some kind of power-blast from their "scryer" .. or am I corn-fused?
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Post by ShawnCowles »

Yeah, I believe Jeslik (don't have the book to check spelling, sorry) was on the "other side" of that.
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Post by gollum »

I for one am surprised by LEM's statement that a vulcrow is in no way associated with scrying. Seems like every time Justen - to mention one 'black' - turned around, there was a vulcrow spying on him. Seemed too coincidental to not be an intentional 'white' proxy.
Just goes to show how misconceptions can colour ones understanding of an entire series!
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Misconceptions

Post by lmodesitt »

I think I've inadvertently created more misconceptions. So... let me amend what I said. No side uses birds, but at times, an order or chaos mage may perceive another mage's scrying as just that. When Megaera is looking for Creslin, both he and the whites perceive her efforts as that of a white bird. I meant they didn't use actual birds and look through the birds' eyes.


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Post by ShawnCowles »

Ahh, that clears things up, thanks.
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Post by CodeBlower »

Cool!
"Budge up, yeh great lump." -- Hagrid, HP:SS
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The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
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Post by Emperor »

Hello all, I'm back from my momentary departure and lately as I've been reading a book of an unrelated author, a thought has gone through my head. Now understandably those that have read my questions in the past must follow the rather strange method with which I both ask and come to my questions.

However to the point at hand. Could the relationship between Chaos and Order be equal to that of Intellegence and Wisdom? in that Chaos mages seem to have more Int and Order have more Wisdom?

As it was explained to me, Int was having the answer, but wisdom is understanding the answer, and i always got the impression as I reflect back over the readings of the Recluce series that the manner in which the two classes (if I can so name them that) dictate a situation seems to me to validate my point.

I can of course like usual end up being wrong, but then isn't the point of a story to be taken as the reader interprets it? Not just in the authors intentions?

I'm hoping everyone can offer their opinion here on this, so please feel free to do so. Thanx, au revoir
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Post by Kvetch »

I'm assuming that you are talking about the Dungeons and Dragons / Roleplaying game style Wis and Int. For all I'm a quite dedicated gamer, the two mental stats don't make much sense to me - they are an artificial construct I don't think really works.

But that is an irrelevance.

I don't think your correlation holds - It tends to be the main characters who do the understanding, and the 'enemies' who have the immediate answer (usually involving fireballs). And even then, i don't think the 'enemies' have tha much in the way of an answer.
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Intentions

Post by lmodesitt »

Authors certainly have intentions as to what we hope the reader will take from a story. Obviously, any reader can take anything he or she thinks from what is written, and upon occasion, a writer implies more than he realizes. All that said, authors do have plans and structures and themes embodied within their work, and certainly my point as an author is not to leave something so open that readers can take it any way they wish. There are certain themes and events in my work, of course, that I know will be taken in different ways by readers of different age levels and experience. In The Magic of Recluce, for example, the fact that Lerris is terminally bored at the beginning will be seen differently [in general] by those who are teenagers and those who are parents with teenagers.



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Post by Emperor »

The relation between Wis and Int though relates well to D&D I was merely referring to the actual difference between the two.

Below is my understanding of the difference between the two. Being more of a stubborn fighter and growing into a more challenging class it took a while to get to the point below for me to get a hand on the difference.

The trick to understanding the difference between the two is first understand why each stat is important to which class in the game. Int is memory which allows Wizards and other classes to carry a vast array of Spells. Wisdom is more common sense. Thus why its perfect for Druids and Clerics.

Apologize to non players who may or may not get the reference

Now about the relation to Recluce, I always took the advice given by the Order mages in the books as always offering more Wisdom to the Character they were addressing, and I always find a Chaos mage to be more interested in his or her own power.

Of course thats a personal take on the matter of course
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Post by gollum »

On reflection, my thoughts are that there were roughly as many 'wise' whites as the other.
Depending on which books you pick...[I just happen to recall Cerryl's story best]

Sterol, Jeslek, Anya, Shyren, are offset by, Cerryl, Kinowin, Myral, Isork
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Post by CodeBlower »

And, conversely, I think the list of blacks that could never see Justen's (or, for that matter, Lerris') wisdom, would bring us to the same conclusion.
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Small question about the word "Score"

Post by Pohl »

I've seen this used in L.E. Modesitt books on occasion but as I was reading "Fall of Angels" I was confused by some of the referances to score(20), such as score thirty. I also saw familer usages like 4 score (80) 5 score (100), but is score thirty the same as saying thirty score or 600?

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Score-ing

Post by lmodesitt »

Yes, score thirty is the same as thirty score. Admittedly, that's an archaic phrasing, but the meaning is the same.


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Post by Pohl »

Thanks for the fast answer LEM, and its good to see that your still lerking on this site.
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Post by Locke »

I'm looking for a certain quote. I think Werlyn said it in The Death of Chaos or The Order War, though I could be wrong. It went something like "Each song is sung a last time, when it regains its power and purity." I remember the actual quote flowing much more smoothly; I'm mangling it and it's been bugging me for awhile now. If you'd be so kind as to post it, I'd certainly appreciate it.
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Post by Locke »

And what happened to Lorn's parents? He returned from the front to find them dead, but either the manner of their death was intended to be ambiguous for some reason or I'm missing something. I don't recall it being spelled out anywhere, but if there's an answer you don't mind sharing (official or otherwise) I'd like to hear it.
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Post by gollum »

Locke wrote:And what happened to Lorn's parents? He returned from the front to find them dead, but either the manner of their death was intended to be ambiguous for some reason or I'm missing something. I don't recall it being spelled out anywhere, but if there's an answer you don't mind sharing (official or otherwise) I'd like to hear it.
Lorn was aware (from the his previous visit home) that his fathers age was catching up to him - shuffling steps, slightly stooped, facade of vigour when others were around, etc.
His mother attempted to mitigate some of the effects of her husbands aging and tried to delay his death - like the Empress with the Emperor. As well as her own age, this also took a toll - and as with the Empress - knew she wouldn't long survive his death.

At least that's the way I read it.
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