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Robert Jordan, Brandon Sandersen, and Wheel Of Time

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:30 pm
by Wildwood
Last one, I promise! I have a book to read (Natural Ordermage). By the way, I was very irritated at Rahl for using his order to influence Jienela to....umm....tryst with him in the orchard! I hadn't thought of that sort of use of order, but it is like what a young person with a great power, and no training or serious teaching of ethics, would probably do.
BUT I digress....that was not what I came here to discuss this time out!

I want to ask all and sundry a question! (If you are not a fan of Wheel of Time, please do not use this discussion as an excuse to abuse it to me. I understand that there are people who lose patience with it, but I am not one of those people. I absolutely enjoy it, and am speaking to those of like mind, please and thanks! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D) Now that we know Brandon Sandersen will pen the last book of the series, how do you feel about this?

I have loved Wheel of Time; some books more than others, but I am well and truly on the hook, and I look forward to knowing how Robert Jordan intended to wrap things up. There is a great deal to wrap up, of course. How irritated I used to get when he would answer a question with "Read and find out." Immeasurably sad that he was taken from us, at all; just rubbing salt in the wound that he never got to finish it himself.

BUT his wife, Harriet, supports Sandersen as being able to do a very creditable job of getting the last book to us. He has all of RJ's copious notes, and tapes, and such, to refer to. And he has a really respectful attitude about what he's been asked to do.

I want to know also....would it help me or hurt me to read some of Sandersen's stuff before I read that last book? I have never read any of his work. No idea if I'd like it or not, although I am an easy mark for an author. What do you think? Read some of his things before, or wait until after?

Lastly - I really wonder about whether he'll be able to strike the same sort of tone as RJ managed to do. What a task to undertake!! I'm in his corner, and I wish him luck, but I don't know....seems like some pretty big shoes to fill!

Discuss! :D:D:D:D

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:08 am
by Spectralfire
I just want to know why they feel the need to condense all that needs to happen into one book. :? They better not jip us on anything (Padan Fain, Egwene and Gawyn, Galad's rallying of the Children; Taim and Logain; the new dreadlords we have been promised since the beginning of the series, Golam{spelling}; That's not even close to half of what we've been promised by previous books and it already sounds like a full book to me) but of course they will.
I'm going to wait until after I read the book to find Sandersen's other stuff.
It makes me once again appreciate LEM's Recluce series since it gets better with each book yet -God forbid- should anything happen to him the series is complete.

Brandon Sanderson

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:35 pm
by lmodesitt
I actually know Brandon. One of the reasons Harriet picked him is that he is a long-standing fan of the Wheel of Time. He writes reasonably well, and his first fantasy novel -- Elantris --was very well received, and even won an award from Romantic Times. I've heard that his new series is a bit uneven, but I can't say because, while I read Elantris and liked it, I can't read everything out there and didn't read Mistborn. He works hard and meets deadlines, and Harriet is one of the best editors out there.

Does that help?


L. E. Modesitt, Jr.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:59 pm
by Wildwood
Spectral - you are right. There is much that needs to be tied up. But Jordan said he'd do it in the one last book, so he must have had some idea how it was all going to work out. I trusted him all the way to this point, so I'm going to go wiht the one book finale! :D:D:D:D:D:D

I haven't quite made up my mind about it. What'll probably happen is that I 'll be in a bookstore, looking around for something, and stumble on one of his novels, and either get it or not. The decision will be made right then! :D:D:D:D:D But thanks for you opinion on it...it's good to get other perspectives.... :D

lem - you're opinion carries extra weight, and it ought to. It is your profession, after all. I had not heard of him before he was chosen. Harriet's endoresement of him does give me confidence. I can't help but think that she wants that book to shine - in tribute to RJ (or should I say JR?). Like I said - I'm an easy mark anyhow.:D:D:D:D:D:D

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:34 am
by gollum
Elantris :thumb:

Haven't read the others

--Greg

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:14 pm
by Emperor
I have to say after reading all the first 10 novels I found I wanted less and less from the story than most other readers. The writing is sound, but I could not agree with the methods in which every plot line in the story was dragged out to such a degree. I would rather see the story come to an end in 1 book than continued to be drawn out in several more novels.

That is of course Personal Opinion Only. I want to make that clear, because I know alot of fans will disagree with me on it.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:13 pm
by Spectralfire
I prefer that style too Emperor. I just like a lot of the elements in the series too much to give up on it. I don't post on Robert Jordan walls tho :lol:

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:55 pm
by Wildwood
Well, most of the books end in such a way that several of the plot lines/threads are wrapped up, for that particular book, with the underlying "big questions" remaining unanswered, or partially answered, etc.

While I love to have a story wrap up, at the end, and not leave me hanging, this quality of WoT is part of what I actually like about it! :D:D:D It may be completely masochistic of me, but I have never had that experience, before, that I HAD to read through so many books, just to get to the end.

Believe me, there were times I suspected that RJ might be in his study, somewhere, giggling maniacally, and asking the empty air "how much farther can we stretch 'em?". :D:D:D:D:D But that was my impatient, pouty inner child. :D:D:D Seriously, it strikes me as a great experiment in just how complicated one could make a plot, and how far you can go, to accomplish all that you need to.

I have frequented WoT websites, but never posted, because I am not nearly savvy enough to contend with those people! :D:D LOTR is my fanatic devotion. WoT is theirs. As a raging Tolkien purist, I know better than to beard the lion in the den! :D:D:D The theories and strategies that they come up with, the indepth analyses to explain who killed Asmodean or whether Moiraine will come back, are mind boggling. I don't want to work quite that hard. I just really want the book to tell me! :D:D:D:D

Ah well. We'll see. If I do pick up one of Sandersen's books, I try Elantris first. Seems to be well regarded. But I have other stuff on my list first.
:D:D:D:D:D:D

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:41 pm
by Emperor
You bring up a valid point though Wildwood (forgive me but I'm becoming a fan of your posts). There are people who come up with theories about what happens in books and novels, but isn't that the point? What are you really learning if the author puts everything out in the open in "pardon the pun here" black & white? What i like about coming here is I can ask my questions, state my opinions to the author himself, and still find enjoyment about what he writes. There are times when I disagree with something in a book or what not, *reference my views on Fairhaven for this ....* but again its the way I see things and the shed of light Mr. Modesitt has offered us.

I've never been able to sit down and read LOTRs. More because I've not be able to get into the style, and the length of it. I watched the movies, learned the story lines and from there could try to read them, But i'm of the sort who watches a movie to be entertained, when it comes to a book, I tend to dive into the story trying to find whats being said and whats being hinted at with out being said.

Forgive my ramblings.

To the point of the thread, I don't think I'll be able to pick up another book of the WoT series because of the impression I've garnered from it. I've used the sites to help understand whats happening better, and I've got most of it down, but for me the story ended before it was able to come to a conclusion.

I will disagree with the point of how each story has its own wrap up, many of the plot lines carry over from book to book, not just the main theme. It was something I just couldn't agree with,

but as always this is just personal opinion only.

Look forward to your next reply Wildwood

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:16 pm
by Wildwood
Emperor: I enjoy your posts too. And thanks for the kindess. I tend to be one of those people you either like or I get on your nerves! :D:D:D:D:

I have talked to more than one person who said they could not get into LOTR. As a raging LOTR fanatic, of course, I find this incomprehensible. :D:D:D But seriously, to each his own. As for "those movies", do not think you've seen the story on the pages come to life on the screen, because you have not. While they stayed true to some elements of the book (and, by all accounts, did a better job than some other adaptations of recent memory...ahem...Eragon!), they took what I considered horrid liberties with the stories.

I was so incensed by some of the stuff that I heard, that I decided early on not to even watch them. :D:D:D:D I post on a forum where they were discussed in depth, before, during and after filming, and so I am actually able to talk about what they did. But I could not bring myself to watch them! I have a relationship to the book story, and I did not want to see what they changed. I really feel that anyone who attempts to adapt an existing work has an obligation to stick as close to it as possible, but I am what you would call "book-centric". I literally want to see the story on the pages come to life, exactly. People who are into movie making tell me that this is not always desirable, or for that matter, possible. But I do not care for their difficulties! :D:D:D:D They make the art. I consume it. If they go where I cannot follow, then I just pass on it.

Long story short (believe it or not :D:D:D:D) I just couldn't watch 'em, but I know plenty about them, thanks to many kind friends who filled me in very accurately. So - as a caution - be aware that what you encountered in those movies is not accurate to what you'd encounter in the books! :D:D:D:D:D

Anyhow - back to your point, if you can't get into it, you can't. It happens, and I don't hold it against you, however crazy that makes you! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Just kiddin', of course.

Now to the real question...how do you feel about coconut in chocolate? This is a question of some moment, because I can in no way approve of coconut, and when it shows up in chocolate??? Wrong. Very very wrong!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

How about this - since you haven't read WoT, or LOTR, and don't appear to have any plans to, you can ask whatever you like, and I'll be happy to answer. That is - as long as we are not violating some terms of service or being rude or something. This is a lem site, after all. But he's a writer (and a dang good one), so I imagine he'd enjoy a discussion about literature, regardless! I'm guessin'! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:53 pm
by Spectralfire
I agree with emperor about the end of the series. How many books did it take Perrin to rescues his wife? 3? I know when i lost fervor for the series. re-reading WoT I think it was book 5. For literally half the book we have to watch Elayne and Nynaeve be catty while hiding in a circus (it was called something else but i can't remember right now). From that moment on every book up to but excluding Knife of Dreams was written in two halves. The first half was long and unnecessary. It would focus on the less important side characters to keep the fans reading waiting for the main characters. And the second half would be well written and focus on 2 of the 3 main characters. Mat and Perrin would switch off which books they appeared in to make room for Galad and Gawyn and all these other characters that we should have been caught up on later not watching. that's my opinion on WoT getting dragged out too long. I like Galad, Gawyn, Lan, Logain, and all the others i just think they should've been spice. Rand is the entree Mat and Perrin are the sides. and the rest is spice for 1 chapter max. But we got a stew with just enough meat to keep us fishing for more. I'm done ranting I'm starting to feel bitter :twisted: Just kidding I like wheel of time but it's a love hate relationship

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:18 pm
by Emperor
I will clear up that I didn't watch the LOTR's movies to get the story line or to use it as saying i know the books. I watched them because I love movies like that, epic fantasy with large battle scenes.

I have in the past read a book and watched the movie adaptation, To Kill a Mockingbird and Sphere come to mind. Sphere was pretty far off the book that I got the impression that hardly any adaptation works right.

I will at some point settle down into the books themselves, maybe with the help of an audio version to help me along the way.

Yeah it does become love hate with it. I remember in the earlier books the character I related too wasn't even in 1 at all and was only briefly mention in the next one, before taking a more dominate roll in the series.

Still enjoy the posts Wildwood, do hope to read more.
and Spectralfire, thanks for the support on my point. :)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:01 pm
by Clifton Hill
Wildwood, you seem to have a similar feel for WoT as I do. I love the series, though at times it was drawn out sure and I was frustrated. I just can't imagine it being any different, there is such a rich world, full of detail, intrigue, magic, and tons of other stuff.

Like yourself I was curious about Sanderson, and how he would add to the series. So I read Mistborn and am reading Elantris. I have to admit a little dissapointment. I would probably not advise a lover of Jordan's to read Sanderson until after you read the last novel(s). He is good enough from what I've read to be an interesting read, though there were times where I just didn't feel fully immersed in his world due to a myriad of things. I think/hope that he can still do the final Jordan book justice though. Considering he is an avid fan, voracious writer/reader, working with a detailed existing world and a solid framework left by Jordan, he should be able to do the impossible and finish it with the loving attention necessary...I hope (no pressure Brandon).

Oh and by the way Wildwood, you have used your yearly allotment of smilies, you'll need to wait until the next period to recommence. :wink:

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:08 pm
by clong
My $.02:

I think the early books all had deeply satisfying conclusions, even if they left wide open the bigger story. The later books failed to do this (although the one where
Spoiler: show
Rand and Nynaeve cleansed Saidin
was extremely cool--was that Winter's Heart?).

Where Jordan went wrong was, starting in book 6 or so, he needed to start moving storylines towards a conclusion. Instead, he started introducing entirely new characters and plotlines. Don't get me wrong--I've generally found things to like in every book (except Crossroads of Twilight which I thought was truly awful).

As I've said before, I don't see any possible way that all the open threads of this story can possibly be brought together in a single book (unless it's 3000 pages long). But I defnitely plan to read whatever comes. I want to know what Jordan had in mind, even if it can't possibly be executed in the way he would have done it.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:33 am
by Clifton Hill
Well of course, Jordan was certainly frustrating at times. If he had been as long winded in the first couple of books. He would have never developed such a large following. But he did and I know I for one I was hooked, despite sometimes feeling like conversations took hundreds of pages with little to nothing happening I couldn't put them down.

I agree with your spoiler, that was very cool. Probably one of the coolest most monumental scenes I've ever read.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:55 pm
by mlhalter
i loved the first 4 or 5 books and i own them all and i will be buying the last one for myself but if i meet someone looking for books to read when Jordan comes up i say if you haven't read the WOT don't it's just not worth it somewhere along the long long road he lost his way and there are so many good books out there that don't

The Wheel of Time

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:31 pm
by The_Khan

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:38 am
by severance
The inevitable has happened - Brandon Sanderson has admitted that he can't wrap up all the various plotlines in one book - so we're going to get three :shock:

Sanderson's actually posted a very good article to his website about the reasons behind the spilt, and what he says makes a good deal of sense - though the thought of three more books will sure to enrage some people.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 am
by umsolopagas
Heaven help us.

I've just finished book 11 and to be honest I count it as a penance for mulishly continuing the story which has minimal character development, considering its length. After all this time too few of the characters who keep the story flowing stand out.

One word for all this - tedious.

Re: Sanderson

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:50 pm
by Tim_the_Bald
umsolopagas wrote:Heaven help us.

I've just finished book 11 and to be honest I count it as a penance for mulishly continuing the story which has minimal character development, considering its length. After all this time too few of the characters who keep the story flowing stand out.

One word for all this - tedious.


Sanderson managed to kill off one subplot before even reaching the first chapter. Good for him! One down, 30 to go.

Re: Robert Jordan, Brandon Sandersen, and Wheel Of Time

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:04 pm
by clong
I finally read The Gathering Storm, and I would have to say it is (a) one of the most satisfying books in the series in a long time and (b) true to everything I love about WOT. Which is not to say that there aren't noticeable stylistic differences and and the odd hokey moment, but the characters are almost completely spot on and the pacing was great. I haven't read anything else by Brandon Sanderson--I think his effort here is miraculous.

Re: Robert Jordan, Brandon Sandersen, and Wheel Of Time

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:16 am
by Zelazny
clong wrote:I finally read The Gathering Storm, and I would have to say it is (a) one of the most satisfying books in the series in a long time and (b) true to everything I love about WOT. Which is not to say that there aren't noticeable stylistic differences and and the odd hokey moment, but the characters are almost completely spot on and the pacing was great. I haven't read anything else by Brandon Sanderson--I think his effort here is miraculous.


I'd have to agree with you. The same goes for Towers of Midnight. Both have strong story progression - you can really feel the end is nearing, and you can look back and say "ahh yes, that's the book where x happens", which is sadly not true for a number of books in the middle of the series.

I'd agree, he doesn't always read like Jordan, but I was getting a bit tired of the wheel of time taking forever to resolve. Books like Crossroads of Twilight just annoyed me, so I'm happy to see good progression towards what seems like a strong finish. I'm really looking forward to the final instalment.

Re: Robert Jordan, Brandon Sandersen, and Wheel Of Time

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:10 pm
by tmaring
Hi, I'm new to the forums... but can it be true that there have been no posts in the Robert Jordan forum since 2011? Maybe I'm reading the dates wrong.

Re: Robert Jordan, Brandon Sandersen, and Wheel Of Time

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:03 am
by clong
tmaring wrote:Hi, I'm new to the forums... but can it be true that there have been no posts in the Robert Jordan forum since 2011? Maybe I'm reading the dates wrong.


While a few of our forums continue to be very active, general participation in book discussions on ibdof has languished in recent years as most of the participants from the early days of the site (and its aborted efforts to merge with iblist) have moved on to other things. Feel free to try to kick start any discussion areas in which you have an interest. :thumb: