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A well known polymath whose published works range far and wide, including (but not limited to) Archaeology, Paleontology, Astronomy, Space Propulsion systems, and Science Fiction.

Official Website: http://www.charlespellegrino.com

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Post by Darb »

We crossed posts, voralfred. ;)
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Post by voralfred »

Brad wrote:We crossed posts, voralfred. ;)
Not forthe first time! We seem to be getting into making a habit of it! ;)

Better crossing posts than crossing swords! :lol:
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Shaky Solar System

Post by mayavision2012 »

I am reading a book right now called "Apocalypse 2012" by Lawrence E. Joseph. Yep, I know that 2012 is another one of those raging debates taking place on our planet now (freeDOM! it's great! :wink: ), but I am more interested in his reported discussions with scientists around the world who seem to believe that our solar system is entering an "energetically hostile part of our galaxy", which is a major reason for the strange behavior of the Sun. It would be great to get some independant thoughts on this view.
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Post by Mr. Titanic »

I once read a theory that stated since the sun is entering this region of space within the Milky Way (receiving certain amounts of radiation, and the like) is one cause of Global Warming. It’s another one of those theories circulating about, one that I find a bit too farfetched. If anything, it is CO2 and an imbalance in nature unable to do away with it. Another theory was our loss of the moon (and thus the Axis tilt) which I believe is more valid. Anyhow, I've heard of many influences on the Solar System from Space. I recall reading something about the Crab Nebula in the Jesus Tomb book that I finished today. It all depends, but I'd have to do more research to see for sure.
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Re: Shaky Solar System

Post by voralfred »

mayavision2012 wrote:....; reported discussions with scientists around the world who seem to believe that our solar system is entering an "energetically hostile part of our galaxy", which is a major reason for the strange behavior of the Sun. It would be great to get some independant thoughts on this view.
Seems to me the time scales are wrong for that.
Previous Ice Ages/Warmings alternances are related to the relative positions of the vernal point (where the earth is on the spring equinox) and the perihelion (when the earth is closest to the sun). These points move in opposite direcitions, one takes roughly 25.000 years to go around and the other one roughly 100.000 years so the time between two crossings is of the order of 20.000 years or so. This corresponds to old Ice Ages/Warmings alternances. What we witness now seems to be much too fast to be compatible even with this natural explanation. But any change of the general galactic environment would be on scales of millions of years, or even much more than that.
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Post by ufojoe »

According to an article in Space.com...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/a ... 50111.html

Excerpt:

SAN DIEGO -- A new study reveals that the center of our Milky Way Galaxy is loaded with black holes, as astronomers have expected in recent years.

The galactic center is dominated by one supermassive black hole. It packs a mass equal to about 3 million Suns. Around it, scientists have expected to find a high concentration of stellar black holes, the sort that result from the collapse of massive stars. Each can be a few to many times the mass of the Sun.

* * * * * * * * * *

Some researchers, such as John Major Jenkins, claim that "...on Dec 21, 2012, which is a winter solstice (Northern Hemisphere) this center will align with our sun once more."

Is there anything else of interest in the center of our galaxy that might be related to the theories of 2012 and the literal or figurative birth/death of civilization?

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... ebula.html

Excerpt:

Magnetic forces at the center of the galaxy have twisted a nebula into the shape of DNA, a new study reveals.

The double helix shape is commonly seen inside living organisms, but this is the first time it has been observed in the cosmos.

"Nobody has ever seen anything like that before in the cosmic realm," said the study's lead author Mark Morris of UCLA. "Most nebulae are either spiral galaxies full of stars or formless amorphous conglomerations of dust and gas—space weather. What we see indicates a high degree of order."

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Post by Mr. Titanic »

That's funny Ufojoe, I was reading about the black hole in the center of our universe just last night! But since we are in the outer arms of the spiral galaxy, we should be safe from that massive black hole. For the same reason, I'd suspect that Earth is also safe from any magnetic forces at the center of the Milky Way, correct? Unless, like a hurricane as the site describes, stars are spiraling into that black hole, and we are nearing the center.
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Hexagon pattern on Saturn

Post by mayavision2012 »

I would be interested in engaging the scientists on the board in a discussion regarding the hexagon pattern found at the north polar region of Saturn. I understand from what I am reading that it has actually been there since 1980, but the surprise factors here are that it is still there and that the pattern on the south polar region is quite different. I know next to nothing about astrophysics and would appreciate your thoughts on this.

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Discovery Channel on Saturn Hexagon
Last edited by mayavision2012 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mr. Titanic »

Is that a pattern in the gasses? I didn't think Saturn had a rocky core, so it must be. Anyhow, it could just be the arrangement of gasses by density, held in by gravity or due to the tilt of it's axis. An example that comes to mind is crystal formations within the Earth, when atoms align to form hexagonal shapes and such.
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Post by ufojoe »

Maya, Hoagland is putting a paper up about the Hexagon on his site soon.
I'll post a link to that paper when it's up. Curious to read it. In his opinion, it's related to his hyperdimensional physics theory.
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Post by Mr. Titanic »

Ahh yes, Oceans in space, that topic encompasses two of my favorite things! And I haven't forgotten our discussion about life in space, hmm, I'll have to explain my reasoning behind that belief once I find some free time this weekend.

Anyhow, this find technically isn't really a big deal. The only thing that makes this special is that Water Vapor was found outside the solar system. There are planets in our own solar system that have Water Vapor on them, excluding Earth. Neptune, my favorite planet for example. I believe Venus does as well. Europa is thought to have an entire ocean (not just Vapor) beneath its icy surface. Water Vapor is hardly significant, especially since it is just that, a vapor. Not to mention it was found on a large gas giant similar to Jupiter. It most likely contains many others gasses besides Water Vapor. Water is hardly a rare compound in the Universe you know, all that is required is Hydrogen and Oxygen, the former being quite common. The key is, actual oceans with just the right conditions to sustain life. This planet cannot. Water is not in oceans, it is too large in terms of Gravity and does not even contain a surface or favorable atmosphere to contain life. I won't even get into lack of Hydrothermal vents!

But nonetheless, it is a facinating find. I love reading now about planets outside our solar system. It's so neat, different planets, different stars, different areas of the Galaxy. :D
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Post by mayavision2012 »

Well, while there may be signs of water all over the Universe as you say, it would not necessarily follow (to my mind) that it would have to be accompanied by conditions like ours to allow it to evolve life. I see this as an anthropocentric point of view that seems a view impossible to hold today when we look at any galactic map/image of our galaxy and milky way with billions of possibilities for life with their own unique chemical makeup styled quite differently than ourselves.
But then again, I happen to perceive that our three-dimensional view of things hinders us from seeing the "rest of the story" concerning the vastness of space in which we live, although I believe the veil is thinning. :roll:
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Post by Mr. Titanic »

I considered that when I thought about this, but I doubt it is a possibility that organisms elsewhere in space (assuming they exist) can be much different from those seen on Earth. I'll explain my reasoning. First and foremost, the universe is composed of all elements identified on the periodic table. The same elements here are in space, we have a little of everything down here. Furthermore anything organic has to contain and be centered on the element Carbon. Everything alive has Carbon, and it would make little sense that anything but Carbon would be sufficient to craft life because Carbon has unique properties (four valance electrons for example - bonding). In addition, there are several characteristics here on Earth that the most diverse and complex species, from land to Water to Air, from fish to bacteria have in common. We all start Protein Synthesis with the Start Codon AUG for example... But most importantly, the only thing proven capable of producing life, something astrobiologists always look for regardless of the planet is Amino Acids. There have been laboratory tests that have simulated young earth and her ability to produce life. Essentially, Amino Acids are the key to life. When these AA are present, it then becomes a matter of whether or not Water and proper temperatures exist to cradle these acids to mature into larger and more complex organisms - or at least into early stages such as bacteria. Then you can get into more complicated theories of a Moon and Gravity being responsible for certain conditions, but it all boils down to essentials - Amino Acids, Carbon and Water. You can't simply have another organism based on say Titanium... or Boron... Each element has unique properties AND already exists on Earth. If those elements were capable of yielding life, they would have first done it on Earth... But no.... Only Carbon pulled it off.

And even so, life regardless of its basic element, life will be susceptible to death by extreme heat from Supernovas and extreme cold from deep space. It's simple really; elements have their properties, as do the planets and organisms they make up. They have their melting and vaporizing points, their freezing points... It's all numbers and the Universe, despite its vastness is really not a mystery. Its contents are not anyway. We already have a taste of what elements exist out there on our own Earth. We already know it all started with the burning oh Hydrogen in Star Cores that eventually, when low on fuel lead to the manufacture of heavier element LIKE carbon - which spilt into space via Supernovas and Stellar Nebulas. The Universe will act as it has been observed to act here in the Milky Way. Simply because you travel certain distances doesn't mean the laws of Physics will break down. Or the laws of Biology for that matter. UNLESS of course, you approach a Singularity. That is a different story, and in some ways irrelevant to life.

If life did exist, it would have these similar properties. Apparence is the ony true thing that can differ, because Organisms adapt to environment. But how truly different can an environment that sustains life be from Earth - the only known planet to do so? As of now, it is our template. And no one has been able to prove otherwise. No one.
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Post by mccormack44 »

Science is my weak point, but I thought that Earth has some silicon-based life as well as the common carbon-based form.
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Post by Mr. Titanic »

Anything organic has carbon in it. If it is alive, as far as I know, it is Carbon based.
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Post by mayavision2012 »

Thank you Mr. T.
Your rationale for the carbon-based theory applying to all life in the universe is impressive and informed. In no way am I capable of arguing your evidence—Chem 101, some electron microscopy classes, and plain old book reading are the extent of my training in the sciences. However, it has often been shown in our history that ideas and scientific "findings" that stood to be absolute in one era have in another era been completely overturned (The tomb in east Talpiot may be turning over more "cornerstones" in this regard); for instance, coming to realize only in the last few centuries that the world is indeed not flat and that Earth is not the center of our Universe. To paraphrase a favorite line of mine from Shakespeare, Horatio, there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
At the risk of straying a bit off the topic (although not far because the Mayans were exquisite students of astronomy), the ancient Mayan ruins of Ek Balam reveal something that absolutely no one studying their culture would have expected in their philosophies. An Angel! Nothing in their codex’s, stelae, “bibleâ€
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neutrino conundrums

Post by Zomboy »

Here's an interesting physics Article.

It was interesting, even though I have no physics background; I wonder if these observations would have any implications for Charlie & co's Valkyrie engine design?

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Post by clong »

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another ocean in the solar system?

Post by Zomboy »

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Post by Mr. Titanic »

Fascinating. But I believe these speculations require further research. I am not convinced with the mentions of "Mays" and "Mights" and need I point out we have no idea if the surface is rocky or icy? This isn't to mention that we are uncertain of the temperatures there, ranging from 32-104 degrees F (quite a drastic difference in assumption). In terms of Florida weather that is either a harsh winter or one devastating summer. But I suppose it isn't as intense as other planets found. In addition, this is five times heavier than our planet which is quite massive... But the most significant lack of information concerns the planet's atmosphere. If 581C is composed largely if not entirely of greenhouse gasses such as Methane or even the worst of them all, Water vapor than the surface temperatures would too hot to cradle life despite the fact that it orbits a dim cool Red Dwarf star, or its distance from it. In Venus' case, most of its atmosphere is CO2 which retains so much heat that it cannot sustain life - and is even hotter than Mercury. We need to know what the atmospheric composition is, and its percentages. Mars in terms of temperature and terrestrial class can harbor life, but is its atmosphere suitable? I'm afraid atmospheres are much more important than any ocean of any compound - be it Water or Ammonia bonds.

Interesting though is that a planet (with potential Earth-like qualities - a planet nonetheless) was found revolving around this type of star (Red Dwarf). I always suspected that if there was a suitable environment out there, it probably revolved around a cool star of this sort (I should post my theory for lack of life soon, I know, just need to get through exams). But I don't think we really need to look for a planet that is in any way like our Earth on our quest to find life elsewhere. We shouldn't focus our search among planets at all for that matter, just yet. If you want to find possible life, one need not look further than our own Solar System. Hydrothermal Vents are it. And they may exist out there on Titan or Europa. Complex creatures would require an Earth-like planet, but if life is what we seek than the chemosynthesis of these vent systems is ideal because there are far less restrictions on the organisms that can live around them.

I suppose the main point here is that it was found outside the solar system and that makes it special. I read that there existed a race to discover a planet of this sort and that is why I guess this article was published in such at such a premature state. We won, nah nah. First to run to the press gets credit so... I just hope we discover more now that credit is ours.
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Post by laurie »

Stephen Hawking experiences zero-gravity:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/04/2 ... index.html


(CNN had a video on TV, but I could only find the article on CNN's website)
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Post by voralfred »

:worship: Stephen Hawking :worship:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Post by laurie »

Found the video on the BBC website:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6594821.stm


This is so cool on so many levels......
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Post by Mr. Titanic »

NASA shows off new views of Jupiter
New images beamed back by a NASA spacecraft that flew by Jupiter earlier this year are giving scientists their most detailed glimpse yet of the gas giant and its moons.

On Feb. 28, New Horizons passed within 1.4 million miles (2.3 million kilometers) of Jupiter as part of a slingshot maneuver to give it a speed boost as it races toward its main target Pluto. During the move, the spacecraft snapped hundreds of images of the Jupiter system.
Image

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18420570?GT1=9951

I especially like the Volcano on Io.
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