More Questions from an L.E. Modesitt Fan

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Koronin
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Post by Koronin »

I had figured it drowned when Dorrin used him to boost himself onto the Hammer, I think he was crying a bit about it (eyes burning) when it happened.

For some reason I can't quite figure, Dorrin's one of my least favorite main characters. I know he accomplished much and wrote The Basis of Order and everything, but there was a timidness/reluctance in him that I didn't care much for. But the way he toasted Jeslek was great.
Emperor wrote:The cover of Magic Engineer brings up a question I posted in another thread..

What ever happened to Dorrins Horse? did it swim back to shore or did it try to follow him to Recluce?
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Post by DocKurtz »

Looking for some help on an answer here.

I'm almost finished rereading the White Order. I'm still not sure why Cerryl's Aunt and Uncle were killed. We're led to believe it was done by the whites. It would have made sense if a) they were still harboring Cerrly or b) they were magely themselves or c) they still lived in the town by the mine and were ratted out (small town talk)

... but they moved to a new town to break those ties, both went to great lengths to not only avoid behavior that got Cerryl's mom and dad in trouble, but also did thier best to ensure Cerryl avoided the same and eventually distanced themselves from him (granted they did give him some of his dad's things, but no one else would have known that). We're also very pointedly told how much his uncle was respected in the town due to his prior role as head miner.

So why kill them? ... other than the obvious reason it makes for a more poignant tale ;)

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Post by ShawnCowles »

To hurt Cerryl, perhaps?
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Post by DocKurtz »

ShawnCowles wrote:To hurt Cerryl, perhaps?
Perhaps, but I think probably not. To want to hurt him they would have had to have known of him ... and he was still working at the mill. It would have been far easier and more effective to take (or kill) Cerryl from (at) the mill than attack his aunt and uncle and hope he heard about it.

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Post by Emperor »

That might be about wanting to hurt him....however recall the places to where his life was directly put in danger. Most of the Whites wanted him gone, so I always took the fact that his aunt and uncle were killed as a way of trying to get the entire family
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Post by gollum »

I had thought that it was Anya who had them killed, in an effort to avoid or effect Cerryl's destiny (as she saw it), - Anya may have mentioned this in her rant while .... SPOILER - COLORS OF CHAOS

My 2 cents.
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Post by ShawnCowles »

Good point, Anya did have "Ryba's Curse", perhaps she knew what Cerryl would become.
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Cerryl's Family

Post by lmodesitt »

As in most of life, the decision by the Whites to kill Cerryl's aunt and uncle wan't based on a single reason. First, according to White policy and practice, they were supposed to turn Cerryl over to the Whites for training [or worse] when they became aware he was a mage. Second, his aunt and uncle violated this policy knowingly because they knew what had happened to Cerryl's father. Third, certain of the Whites would want to make sure Cerryl had no family ties left to bind him to the Whites and/or to destroy anyone who could tell the real story about Cerryl and his father. while others would want the same to turn him against Anya and Jeslek, assuming he did survive to become a white mage.

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Re: Cerryl's Family

Post by DocKurtz »

lmodesitt wrote:As in most of life, the decision by the Whites to kill Cerryl's aunt and uncle wan't based on a single reason. First, according to White policy and practice, they were supposed to turn Cerryl over to the Whites for training [or worse] when they became aware he was a mage. Second, his aunt and uncle violated this policy knowingly because they knew what had happened to Cerryl's father. Third, certain of the Whites would want to make sure Cerryl had no family ties left to bind him to the Whites and/or to destroy anyone who could tell the real story about Cerryl and his father. while others would want the same to turn him against Anya and Jeslek, assuming he did survive to become a white mage.

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Re: Cerryl's Family

Post by Aunflin »

lmodesitt wrote:As in most of life, the decision by the Whites to kill Cerryl's aunt and uncle wan't based on a single reason. First, according to White policy and practice, they were supposed to turn Cerryl over to the Whites for training [or worse] when they became aware he was a mage. Second, his aunt and uncle violated this policy knowingly because they knew what had happened to Cerryl's father. Third, certain of the Whites would want to make sure Cerryl had no family ties left to bind him to the Whites and/or to destroy anyone who could tell the real story about Cerryl and his father. while others would want the same to turn him against Anya and Jeslek, assuming he did survive to become a white mage.

L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
But would he have turned into the same person if the circumstances had been slightly changed? Him taken to Fairhaven for training, his aunt and uncle still alive, him taken, his aunt and uncle slain, and etc.

Myself, whether he worked/lived at the wood mill or went directly to Fairhaven...I think he would have been the same--or close to it. He would still remember his past...

Another question: is it nature or nurture?

I lean towards nature.

I now have two nephews. One is hyper, running around everywhere (though I hear from everyone in the family that I was ten times as bad) and not easily deterred by physical injury. The newest one eats waaay more, cries a lots, doesn't move around as much, isn't scrawny--he's his own person even though he has the same parents, grandparents, uncles, cousins, granfparents, great-grandparents, and etc. The newests, youngest (Brody) is entirely different than his older brother, Wiley--both with the same mom and dad.

Personally, I think everyone is born with certain traits and grow up, learning from parents and mentors, becoming the person they will be, but their interactions with others don't mean spit to who they were already born as...

I see two kids, a year and a week apart in age and totally different. They'll only grow more different as they age--but they'll have the same parents.

So is it predestination or free will?

Personally I think it's a little bit of both. (The "predestination" being the genetic combo we all end up with. The rest is left to mom, dad, and the world....
"A writer's chosen task is to write well and professionally. If you can't keep doing it, then you're no longer a professional, but a gifted amateur." L. E. Modessit, jr.
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Post by colour of candor »

lol You can't think of possibilities about whether we did something diffrent what would happen. At least I believe that there is one way things happen. The way things happen is the way they were supposed to happen and the only way they could happen. You cannot go back in time and change things. Therefore there is only one path. We may just not know that path until after we have walked it.

I think it's both nature and nurture. The fact is the boys are diffrent. The fact is there are not the same. They have lived diffrent lifes. They have had diffrent experiences. I know for me my experiences have shaped me greatly, my morals and values etc. Nature also makes us who we are, our physical characteristics. It creates are base personality. Both are important. My natural raction may be to hit someone for making me mad but based on past experiences I won't. Just because I don't hit them I may react aggresively due to my nature. etc. I am a very diffrent person then I was even 5 years ago , but I stil have characteristics that are the same.
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Re: Cerryl's Family

Post by CodeBlower »

Aunflin wrote:But would he have turned into the same person if the circumstances had been slightly changed? Him taken to Fairhaven for training, his aunt and uncle still alive, him taken, his aunt and uncle slain, and etc.
Aunflin wrote: So is it predestination or free will?

Personally I think it's a little bit of both. (The "predestination" being the genetic combo we all end up with. The rest is left to mom, dad, and the world....
I think you answered your own question.
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The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
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Post by Emperor »

Despite his personal set backs I rather enjoyed Cerryl's experinces.

Feel that way about many of the chars in this series
The skill of writing is to create a context in which other people can think.

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Post by Demonsword314 »

Towards the end of Magi'i of Cyador in the conversation with the Emperor, it was said that the sleep ward would last about 30 generations, which is about 500-600 years, unless it is disturbed by an order focus (or chaos focus, I think...trying to do this from memory here) that was as great as the Towers. Because it was never defined as how close,( 1 foot, 1 light year...), was the Winterlance's fusactors responsible for the premature destabilization of the ward? More importantly, is this the reason that the fusactors no longer worked? (I'm thinking the warped space time towers and the fusactors cancled each other out)
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Re: Cerryl's Family

Post by gollum »

lmodesitt wrote:As in most of life, the decision by the Whites to kill Cerryl's aunt and uncle wan't based on a single reason. ...
Neatly illustrates some of Kien's 'thoughts' (for Lorn to read and think about) - "simple, yet also, complex"
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Re: Cerryl's Family

Post by Aunflin »

CodeBlower wrote:I think you answered your own question.
I believe you're right. lol :oops: :lol:
"A writer's chosen task is to write well and professionally. If you can't keep doing it, then you're no longer a professional, but a gifted amateur." L. E. Modessit, jr.
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Post by ShawnCowles »

What sort of programming language is used on the Babbage "computers" in the ghost books?
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Programming

Post by lmodesitt »

I never specified the programming language.


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Post by Emperor »

I got to thinking about something and I think its in line with a question I might have asked previously about character names.

How do you decide on the name of a character? and have you ever changed the name to better suit the character you developed in a story?
The skill of writing is to create a context in which other people can think.

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Character names

Post by lmodesitt »

Naming characters is as much a matter of feel as logic for me. The name has to be easy to pronounce [at least to me] and has to fit with the culture in which he/she grows up.

I've changed names once or twice in the early stages of a book, and only once later on -- at the recommendation of my editor.


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Re: Character names

Post by CodeBlower »

lmodesitt wrote:I've changed names once or twice in the early stages of a book, and only once later on -- at the recommendation of my editor.
'Cuz it sounded too much like a part of the anatomy, or what?

:wink:
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The gelding is what the gelding is, unlike people who change in response to their perceptions of events that may benefit or threaten their power. -- Lorn, Chapter LXXXII, Magi'i of Cyador
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Post by DocKurtz »

Sounds like a Sienfeld episode :) ... "Delores!"

sorry ... Sienfeld still gives me the giggles.

-Doc
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Names

Post by lmodesitt »

He thought that a game I played with names was too "cutesy" and didn't work. He was probably right.


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Post by Hunter B »

Mr. Modesitt, I've noticed that in many of your books you spell the word 'sir' as 'ser'. I always thought this was purely a difference in spelling, until I ran into this quote in The Octagonal Raven:
An unnamed female FS officer wrote:"Also, I understand it has become the fashion, once more to refer to men as 'sir' and women as 'ma'am' or 'lady' or whatever your local linguistic equivalent may have been. I will remind you that in the FS, all superior officers are 'ser.' Period. No discussion."
I was wondering if there was a difference in pronunciation, or if it was merely a spelling difference.
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Salutations

Post by lmodesitt »

I have used "ser," as in the quote, as a "unisex" salutation in military situations. This, of course, in complicated by the fact that in other linguistic settings "sir" is in fact "ser."

I've chosen, upon occasion, to be ambiguous, perhaps because I feel that the military use of "ma'am" tends to embody condescension, no matter what anyone claims.

L. E. Modesitt, Jr.
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