LMB Quote Game

[SPetty]

So much for that idea.

If it's bent Necklin rods, it's pretty obvious which book it's from. As to the rest of it, I'll have to check _Young Miles_ when I get back from walking the dog, if no one else has answered by then.

[E Pericoloso Sporgersi]

Quickly, quickly, before the dog gets back ...

I remember only one ship with bent drive rods: Arde Mayhews' old RD cargo ship.

xxxx was Arde. He and Miles were discussing what to do with that ship.
Miles decided to sell it locally to serve as in-system freighter. The proceeds paid for the trip back to Beta and for Elli's medical expenses.

Spetty? I wonder what made you think of a place? Occam's razor

[voralfred]

So I'll go for my grain of salt. Of course EPS is right, the only bent Necklin rods are those of Arde Mayhew's RG. But I understand Roger's hint as pointing only to the book, _WA_, but not to a specific passage.
My guess is, towards the end of the book, Miles talking to Ivan (=xxxx) about the way his Tau Verde escapade will be understood on Barrayar: high treason, pure and simple (that's Occam's razor for you), rather than the complicated concatenation of events that eventually created the Dendarii Free Mercenaries. And there will be a third party, namely Vordrozda, ready to "melt the theory to fit the facts".

[rogerstenning]

Darn! I knew that last clue was too easy!

Quickly, quickly, before the dog gets back ...

I remember only one ship with bent drive rods: Arde Mayhews' old RD cargo ship.

xxxx was Arde. He and Miles were discussing what to do with that ship.
Miles decided to sell it locally to serve as in-system freighter. The proceeds paid for the trip back to Beta and for Elli's medical expenses.

Spetty? I wonder what made you think of a place? Occam's razor

Sorry, wrong... but see below - you were close, though - Better luck next time!

So I'll go for my grain of salt. Of course EPS is right, the only bent Necklin rods are those of Arde Mayhew's RG. But I understand Roger's hint as pointing only to the book, _WA_, but not to a specific passage.
My guess is, towards the end of the book, Miles talking to Ivan (=xxxx) about the way his Tau Verde escapade will be understood on Barrayar: high treason, pure and simple (that's Occam's razor for you), rather than the complicated concatenation of events that eventually created the Dendarii Free Mercenaries. And there will be a third party, namely Vordrozda, ready to "melt the theory to fit the facts".

Bingo! Nail, hammer, head, etc

The exact passage is in WA, at the end of Ch 18.

"Can you think of another theory that will account for the facts?"
"Sure," said Ivan, happily continuing the role of devil's advocate. "Easy. Maybe that parchment was addressed to someone else. Dimir took it to him, which is why he hasn't shown up here. Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor, Miles?"
"It sounds simpler, until you start to think about it. Ivan, listen. Think back on the exact circumstances of your midnight departure from the Imperial Academy, and that dawn liftoff. Who signed you out? Who saw you go? Who do you know, for certain, who knows where you are right now? Why didn't my father give you any personal messages for me—or my mother or Captain Illyan either, for that matter?" His voice became insistent. "If Admiral Hessman took you off to some quiet, isolated place right now and offered you a glass of wine with his own hands, would you drink it?"
Ivan was silent for a long, thoughtful time, staring out at the Dendarii Free Mercenary Fleet. When he turned back to Miles, his face was painfully somber. "No."

Alfred, you get the full set of 2½ points and the - well done, and over to you!

Oh, and the Sherlock thread has just been updated with this result!

[SPetty]

Quickly, quickly, before the dog gets back ...

I remember only one ship with bent drive rods: Arde Mayhews' old RD cargo ship.

xxxx was Arde. He and Miles were discussing what to do with that ship.
Miles decided to sell it locally to serve as in-system freighter. The proceeds paid for the trip back to Beta and for Elli's medical expenses.

Spetty? I wonder what made you think of a place? Occam's razor

Because there are mountain ranges named odd things like Bastard's Teeth, and apparently, I never found time for a logic class in high school or college. Thanks for the link! I do wonder why it's "Occam" when wikipedia indicates the man's name was not actually spelled that way, but not everyone is as interested in accurate spelling as I am (referring to the person who coined the term, "Occam's razor" and not LMB). I suppose in my head, it was also more likely that there was an obscure mountain range that no one had heard of, discussing strategy of battles. There's a quote from Cazeril about "what I have't ridden over, I've walked, what I haven't walked, I've been dragged across. Or through. I've had geography ground into my skin" that I was reminded of. It made perfect sense at the time. And I was one of the good students in my school... *sigh*

Anyway, congrats, Voralfred!

[voralfred]

(...)

Bingo! Nail, hammer, head, etc

The exact passage is in WA, at the end of Ch 18.

"Can you think of another theory that will account for the facts?"
"Sure," said Ivan, happily continuing the role of devil's advocate. "Easy. Maybe that parchment was addressed to someone else. Dimir took it to him, which is why he hasn't shown up here. Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor, Miles?"
"It sounds simpler, until you start to think about it. Ivan, listen. Think back on the exact circumstances of your midnight departure from the Imperial Academy, and that dawn liftoff. Who signed you out? Who saw you go? Who do you know, for certain, who knows where you are right now? Why didn't my father give you any personal messages for me—or my mother or Captain Illyan either, for that matter?" His voice became insistent. "If Admiral Hessman took you off to some quiet, isolated place right now and offered you a glass of wine with his own hands, would you drink it?"
Ivan was silent for a long, thoughtful time, staring out at the Dendarii Free Mercenary Fleet. When he turned back to Miles, his face was painfully somber. "No."

Alfred, you get the full set of 2½ points and the - well done, and over to you!

Oh, and the Sherlock thread has just been updated with this result!

Well, in fact I got it reversed: it was Ivan talking to Miles, and I said the contrary, I should have checked it instead of answering from memory. But I was close enough to get the point and the bonus, if Roger is not too strict.
But really, it is not the custom to give more thant 1/2 point for a bonus. Sure, I did occasionally offer several bonuses myself with a single question, but each bonus referred to a different book, a different passage, all of them having some more or less strong connection to the main question. Here, all the answers were on the same passage, so one and a half point total is the maximum. Do downgrade me by one point, Roger. I still beat the 100 point ceiling! Hooray!
Edit: I downgraded myself when I posted EPS's new rating for winning my question ans the local bonus, so there is no point downgrading me again

I'll post the new quote ASAP.

[voralfred]

"So if you truly believe that, why are you standing in my way?"

Here the italics are for emphasis, not a thought.

Main question: book and speaker? (so one can guess)

First 1/2 bonus, local: to whom was that said? who else hears it?

Second 1/2 bonus, nonlocal: this reminds me of a different, but somewhat similar, situation in a different book. Which one? (if you offer one that I find more appropriate than the one I am thinking of, you can still have the bonus; you can even get more than one bonus for several similar situations, but they must be completely different ones to get several bonuses - also, different players can have such a bonus)
Since even the second bonus is a strong hint for the main question, Roger, you are barred from answering it for 5 days or till the main question is answered; but as soon as it is answered and confirmed, you can answer the bonus even before the new question is asked.

[E Pericoloso Sporgersi]

"So if you truly believe that, why are you standing in my way?"

Quickly, quickly, before he melts ...

In Civil Campaign.
When Miles and Ekaterin are leaving a reception, an obnoxious Vor blocks their way out and remarks about "Vorkosigans getting away with murder". That's when Miles says the quoted sentence.
After passing the man, Ekaterin looks back and whispers "He's melted." or something to that effect.

Something similar:
Taura was standing next to a goon of the opposition, "smiled" at him and told him "You're cute!" (in Mirror Dance, I think)
BTW, does that make Taura a gooness?

Baron Ryoval's bodyguard (aboard Fell Station in Labyrinth) is a silent threat, he's quiveringly alert and visibly trained as a bare-hands-combat killer.

[voralfred]

Wow, that was fast!!

One and a half :sherlock:s

For the nonlocal bonus, I was thinking of a situation that arises when precedence about going through a doorway almost becomes a life-and-death matter, rather than a static situation. So the nonlocal bonus(es) is (are) still out for grabs.

Over to you!

[sarsaparilla]

I was thinking of someone using a reputation they hadn't earned to make someone annoying go away. As in Barrayar, where Cordelia says, "Do you know why Vorrutyer died? He was trying to hurt Aral through me. I found that ... annoying. I wish you would stop trying to annoy me, Vordarian. I'm afraid you might succeed."

[voralfred]

Well, this is not a bad answer, but I really think in terms of a problem arising at a doorway, between people competing to go through and this escalating to a life-and-death situation.

[E Pericoloso Sporgersi]

For the nonlocal bonus, I was thinking of a situation that arises when precedence about going through a doorway almost becomes a life-and-death matter, rather than a static situation. So the nonlocal bonus(es) is (are) still out for grabs.

When Aral decides to storm the ship's engine room, Bothari takes exception to Aral going through the door first. So they switch places to Bothari first, Aral second and then the rest (in Shards of Honor).

Surely this is a life-and-death doorway situation but little did they know Cordelia had already neutralised the danger.

[voralfred]

(...)
When Aral decides to storm the ship's engine room, Bothari takes exception to Aral going through the door first. So they switch places to Bothari first, Aral second and then the rest (in Shards of Honor).

Surely this is a life-and-death doorway situation but little did they know Cordelia had already neutralised the danger.

Not bad, but not what I had in mind: here, two friends compete about which is going to risk his life first, the (percieved, at least) danger coming from the doorway; I meant two adversaries whose competition threatens to degenerate, in front of a completely innocent doorway...

I'm not sure this bonus was such a great idea: too many situations can be related to it; but I had a very specific one in mind.. oh, well, I'll sure soemone will eventually read my mind...
A hint: not Vorkosiverse (but for all I know there might be one in the Vorkosiverse that fit my requirements: adversaries whose competition in front of a doorway theatens to degenerate)

[sarsaparilla]

OH. Chalion? Where Cazaril gets into a fight with the one guy, Dondo's toady?

[voralfred]

Yes, that's just what I had in mind!

[E Pericoloso Sporgersi]

Buildings (and probably large ships like dreadnought Prince Serge too) don't have so-called lifts (elevators) but lift tubes instead.

Do lift tubes have 1 or more cages, or none? Which scene in which book proves it unambiguously either way? Who witnesses that scene?

Bonus question:
When (approximately) and why was Vorkosigan House retrofitted with a lift tube?

P.S.
1. The grace period I requested to include Cryoburn in this thread has passed.
So unless anyone else objects, I've no doubt our dean Voralfred will allow quotes/questions taken from Cryoburn.

2. My hardcopy of Cryoburn came with a CD containing all the Nexus stories, except I believe Memory and Miles's vorkosiverse (his poetry).

This makes it trivially easy to search for literal quotes and thus cheat. Of course nobody will do that. To paraphrase Lois, it would be cheating your heart's desire. Or think of Aral's "honour versus reputation".

A sure way to avoid cheating is to describe in your own words a particular situation/event/thought/discussion, and quizzing about it correspondingly. This is what I have tried to do with the questions above and also with my very first game question here.

[SPetty]

Oddly enough, I know the answer to the bonus off the top of my head, and I'm fairly certain about the quote, too, but things are likely to be hectic around here for the next little bit, so I'll check back on Monday to see if I should verify the quote.

I appreciate the morality statement about searching the ebook editions. I only have Falling Free on e-book, but if I have to search it for a quote, I do so manually, rather than using the "find" function. And I decided not to remove the CD from the book, just in case it affects the book's future value (I'd read somewhere that the CD was a first edition feature). I don't typically sell my books, but should the first edition be worth more to my grandchildren from me not opening the CD, well, I have the rest of them in paper form anyway. I'll probably remove the CD later, should it become a long-term add-on.

And now that I've veered away from the new quote, a reminder that it seems to be find the quote about the specifics about lift tubes, without actually stipulating what the quote is.

[voralfred]

(...)

P.S.
1. The grace period I requested to include Cryoburn in this thread has passed.
So unless anyone else objects, I've no doubt our dean Voralfred will allow quotes/questions taken from Cryoburn.
(...)

In fact almost a week ago I already reacted to your change of mind, and suggested we include Cryoburn.
But on second thoughts, we have two new players who are both quite active.
So Roger, sarsaparilla, if you wish to delay the inclusion of Cryoburn till you have had time to read it, please say so rapidly, here or on the Cryoburn thread pointed to just above. Unless either or both of you voice an objection soon, I consider that Cryoburn should be fair game from now on.

As for your question, EPS, I have some ideas, but no point for me to go through the books to check for another 5 days...

[sarsaparilla]

Buildings (and probably large ships like dreadnought Prince Serge too) don't have so-called lifts (elevators) but lift tubes instead.

Do lift tubes have 1 or more cages, or none? Which scene in which book proves it unambiguously either way? Who witnesses that scene?

Bonus question:
When (approximately) and why was Vorkosigan House retrofitted with a lift tube?

P.S.
1. The grace period I requested to include Cryoburn in this thread has passed.
So unless anyone else objects, I've no doubt our dean Voralfred will allow quotes/questions taken from Cryoburn.

2. My hardcopy of Cryoburn came with a CD containing all the Nexus stories, except I believe Memory and Miles's vorkosiverse (his poetry).

This makes it trivially easy to search for literal quotes and thus cheat. Of course nobody will do that. To paraphrase Lois, it would be cheating your heart's desire. Or think of Aral's "honour versus reputation".

A sure way to avoid cheating is to describe in your own words a particular situation/event/thought/discussion, and quizzing about it correspondingly. This is what I have tried to do with the questions above and also with my very first game question here.

So... I'm thinking they don't have cages at all. I think this because Miles and Eli made out in a lift tube in London in Brothers in Arms and people passed them and stared, and also the cat blanket they'd bought that day floated away from them.

Bonus: This might not be specific enough, but I'm thinking it was about the time Aral and Cordelia reconciled with Piotr after Miles' birth (about five years after?), and it was Cordelia's idea. Early in Barrayar, Piotr had encouraged Cordelia to do some kind of major remodel in/to Vorkosigan House, and the lift tube was what she chose to do.

As far as Cryoburn, I'm good, I've read it.

As far as the CD, I happen to know a site where it's hosted online. If no one is morally opposed, I'm perfectly willing to share the address, so that we all could have access to it.

[rogerstenning]

Re Cryoburn - Go for it

re Lift Tubes - not a blinking clue, still speed reading my books in between shifts at work!

[voralfred]

(...)

As far as Cryoburn, I'm good, I've read it.

Re Cryoburn - Go for it (...)

So I think it is OK to declare that Cryoburn is accepted by acclamation as fair game from now on.

So list of allowed books:
- Spirit RIng
- all 3 "World of Chalion"
- all of Vorkosiverse including _Falling Free_ (and of course _EoA_)

Forbidden
- the novella _Dreamweaver's Dilemma_ (even though it is technically in the same Universe as the Saga, with Beta Colony)
- the short stories published only in the collection Dreamweaver's Dilemma ("only" means that _MoM_ is of course allowed, though it is also published there)


Francis, yoo-hoo, sarsaparilla offered an answer to your question a few posts above, come and judge if you accept it!

[E Pericoloso Sporgersi]

So... I'm thinking they don't have cages at all. I think this because Miles and Eli made out in a lift tube in London in Brothers in Arms and people passed them and stared, and also the cat blanket they'd bought that day floated away from them.

Though this isn't the answer I was aiming for (your proof completely slipped my mind), your reasoning is very valid and correct.
But before closing this round, I propose to wait to give everybody, you included, a chance to find the other valid instance. That is to say, wait until the other answer is found or until Voralfred's barred period has expired by a full day, whichever occurs first.
Of course you have already earned 1/2 point for your correct answer. The second correct answer will earn you or someone else the other half point.
I hope this is acceptable to everyone.

Bonus: This might not be specific enough, but I'm thinking it was about the time Aral and Cordelia reconciled with Piotr after Miles' birth (about five years after?), and it was Cordelia's idea. Early in Barrayar, Piotr had encouraged Cordelia to do some kind of major remodel in/to Vorkosigan House, and the lift tube was what she chose to do.

I think you're wrong about when and why the lift tube was installed.

As far as the CD, I happen to know a site where it's hosted online. If no one is morally opposed, I'm perfectly willing to share the address, so that we all could have access to it.

This buck I'll pass up to the dean.
VORALFRED !!! (BTW. Shouldn't you include TSK in the list of allowed books?)

[voralfred]

(...)
VORALFRED !!! (BTW. Shouldn't you include TSK in the list of allowed books?)

Yes, of course!
Sorry for the omission

[E Pericoloso Sporgersi]

Buildings (and probably large ships like dreadnought Prince Serge too) don't have so-called lifts (elevators) but lift tubes instead.

Do lift tubes have 1 or more cages, or none? Which scene in which book proves it unambiguously either way? Who witnesses that scene?

Bonus question:
When (approximately) and why was Vorkosigan House retrofitted with a lift tube?

So... I'm thinking they don't have cages at all. I think this because Miles and Eli made out in a lift tube in London in Brothers in Arms and people passed them and stared, and also the cat blanket they'd bought that day floated away from them.

A short hint: Sarsaparilla gave a first proof. The second proof is a cliff-hanger. and

[voralfred]

Well, I think I won't wait for the full five days, because I believe sarsaparilla deserves the full sherlock and the next quote.
I assume the other example you mean is Mark escaping from Ryoval's dungeon. This is the only other time that we see the innards of a lift tube. But sarsaparilla's answer fully solves your question, so why deny her the full point?
As for the bonus, I have no better idea than her. Just as sarsaparilla wrote, I see it that way: the idea of the lift tube in Vorkosigan's House was originally proposed by Cordelia when she was pregnant, but from the rapidity of following events, the soltoxin attack probably occured before they were installed, Piotr got angry because of the transplant and shelved the whole thing until after reconciliation, some 5 years after Miles' birth. But apparently you disagree. You are the one in charge there, I won't discuss your position on the bonus, I suppose you know of some page I have forgotten.
But for the main question, I really see no reason to delay sarsaparilla's full and turn to put in a new quote (the bonus remains valid indefinitely anyway)